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John Kirwan's controversial Bledisloe red card remarks on The Breakdown lit up social media
The controversial view of former All Blacks winger John Kirwan regarding last Saturday’s Bledisloe Cup sendings-off and his desire to have red cards removed from rugby unsurprisingly sparked a veritable storm online. His comments came following the match in Brisbane where Ofa Tu’ungafasi and Wallaby Lachlan Swinton were shown first-half red cards by referee Nic Berry for tackles to the head.
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Kirwan, the 1987 World Cup-winning All Blacks star, discussed the incidents up when appearing on the latest episode of The Breakdown, the weekly Sky Sport NZ TV rugby programme.
The former Italy coach said that “our game does not need red cards” as “people have paid good money to watch a game of rugby with 15-a-side”. He suggested players should be replaced instead or put on report.
However, Kirwan’s opinion was dismissed as being “out of touch” and “archaic” by many people online.
Former Canada international Cameron Pierce, who was forced to retire in 2016 from severe post-concussion syndrome, told Kirwan to “get with the times”. Meanwhile, ex-England international Ugo Monye labelled the comments “unhelpful and irresponsible”.
Wow, I hope this guy is joking! The game has changed mate, get with the times 🤦🏻♂️
— Cameron Pierce (@cdpierce4) November 11, 2020
The area where so many disagreed with Kirwan was that player welfare must surely take precedence over the entertainment value of a match – and what was ironic about this most recent match was that the two red cards ensured the game as a spectacle did not actually suffer, with Australia eventually winning by just two points.
Unhelpful and irresponsible comments https://t.co/E9gscj7UzF
— Ugo Monye (@ugomonye) November 11, 2020
Furthermore, while most people would agree that there is rarely any malicious intent from players when tackling, a red card is there as a deterrent. However, some people were also in agreement with Kirwan, feeling that a red card was no longer working as a deterrent.
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These tackles are certainly dangerous, but the point Kirwan made was that there were alternatives to red cards as this punishment was not stopping players from doing these type of offences, particularly as the majority of them are mistakes, albeit reckless.
Totally agree with him 100%. These tackles are made in games being played at a ferocious pace, and the carrier changes his body shape continuously, making it almost impossible for the tackler to anticipate. Like he says, they are not trying to hurt people.
— Jeremy Quin (@Thaiblue) November 11, 2020
He’s not contesting the reds – he’s saying that the sanction ruins the spectacle. It’s an imperfect rule – dangerous and intentional foul play needs strong punishment but players are fallible, they make mistakes without intending harm. I like his idea of enforced substitution.
— Jon Dewey (@Writethinking) November 11, 2020
There should be punishment, but red for a “slip” or unintentional hit is wrong.
Especially when you are allowing players to run at full force into rucks into the back of the head / neck of the jackler, 100’s of times a game.
It’s inconsistent and it’s hypocrital.
— AndrewJoy (@AndrewJ0y) November 11, 2020
It’s rugby union, it’s physical.
Why doesn’t F1 have a speed limit?
Why doesn’t cricket have bowling speed restriction?
Why does boxing still allow punches to the head?
The laws have gone to far and rugby is getting lost in them.
— AndrewJoy (@AndrewJ0y) November 11, 2020
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Both Super Rugby Aotearoa and AU experimented with law variations this year around the red card where the offending player was removed from the game but the team were allowed to replace them after 20 minutes to prevent games becoming too one-sided.
The counter to this experiment – and to Kirwan’s stance – has always been that this may see a rise in key players being targeted early on in games, with the side committing the act of foul play knowing they do not risk being down to 14 men for the rest of the game.
That is only conjecture and did not prove to be the case in either competition in Australia or New Zealand. Only one red card was brandished on either side of the Tasman, which was for two yellow cards.
In all sports, there is never complete agreement among players, pundits and fans, but the framework around the rugby union red card is constantly being adjusted and there will no doubt be more change to come. Tu’ungafasi received a three-week ban this week for his tackle, while Swinton was given four.
These rulings by World Rugby are SAFETY related, not ENTERTAINMENT related.
Concussion is REAL, it KILLS, and we MUST try to prevent these injuries.
A red card and ban will help to re-educate players who consistently offend.
Very irresponsible attitude.
— Kevin Westlake (@WestlakeKevin) November 11, 2020
What absolute garbage. Both clear reds. How he gets paid to be a pundit is beyond me? The tackle technique is wrong and this is how we remove it from the game for the safety of the players. They could have just adjusted a few cm’s lower and would be a gold hit.
— Alexander Evans (@AlexDavidEvans) November 11, 2020
Just shows that great players aren’t necessarily that bright. I suspect if it had been any other game with any other teams he’d have said nothing. Grow up Kirwan, sometimes the Gods that are AB’s make mistakes. ????
— David Cookman (@davidiafrica) November 11, 2020
Idiotic and irresponsible view from JK. Just because there was no malice does not mean it’s not a red card. Unintended yes but dangerous nonetheless. There has to be better technique. The body position of Swindon and Tongafasii is simply too high.
— Antony Hill (@AntonyMHill) November 11, 2020
Drivel.. Unless you are psychic you can’t know what someone is thinking. Red Cards are for dangerous play. That was dangerous, poor technique I’m sure as a kid he was taught better. Red cards will make players learn to do better than the ‘stop at all costs’ challenge like this
— DIANE SAMUEL (@dilly_dot) November 11, 2020
This is irresponsible and frankly archaic response. Red cards are required in the game. The players need to take responsibility. Why is it that we don’t see 2 RC every game because most players have adapted away from this dangerous play.
— Robbie Bourke (@robbie_bourke) November 11, 2020
I understand that these are his personal views but expressing them so forcefully, whilst working on TV as a pundit, is, I believe irresponsible.
He seems to be putting the enjoyment of the spectators above player safety.— Ponty Pete (@DandoPete) November 11, 2020
Someone needs to define how a game is ruined.
Perhaps if we turn it around
Star player lost to a concussion from high tackle for the season
Career ending neck injury from tip tackle
I could go on
Red cards protecting players welfare trumps your 80 mins of sadness— Because I said so (@CaudalRaphe) November 11, 2020
“I don’t think there is anyone in our game who goes out to intentionally hurt someone”.
Kirwan completely out of touch with the modern day player. Why do we keep listening to old men? Why are they still on TV?
— Tim O’Callaghan (@jollyswagman340) November 11, 2020
If there is no red cards then how long will it be before someone smashes Kolbe or Barret just to get them off the field coz you wont get a red card. Calling Kirwan a pundit these days is just having a laugh really. They dont hurt someone intentionally coz of the red cards Idiot!
— Wihan JvR (@Wihan360) November 11, 2020
It is absolutely ridiculous – absolutely ridiculous that this ignorance and attitude is tolerated let alone given a platform.
Guess you guys clipped and pinned this for clicks and kicks but it’s irresponsible to be promoting idiocy like this and frankly disgustingly dangerous
— Edward Paul (@Edward_Paul34) November 11, 2020
https://twitter.com/jerryflannery/status/1326499901660946432
Comments on RugbyPass
Always reluctant to blame a coach when losses rack up, but Penney must go. The backline is dysfunctional and the coach must carry the can. No cohesion, no idea and in many cases, minimal skill. The trains out of Roma St depart faster than the ball from Crusaders’ set pieces. Wouldn’t be surprised if the forwards went on strike.
1 Go to commentsAdding to earlier comment. Cullen Grace has been playing great at no6. Lio-Willie , who was on fire a few weeks ago, had a bad game. I think Cullen should have been moved to 8 earlier, Dominic Gardiner on earlier. Feel for Quinten Strange , put in a big shift .
4 Go to commentsWe dominated the scrums Ben Curry was all over pitch again .Surely James Harper got to be one of best English tightheads
1 Go to commentsRoos is a better option at 6 than 8 for the boks. Needs to work on his windgat though.
1 Go to commentsThe Sharks’ 2nd team maybe?
1 Go to comments‘radical’
1 Go to commentsCome back to Christchurch Robbie, please!
1 Go to commentsI think there is zero chance Sam Cane will be selected for another Test. There is simply no point except sentimentality. Razor is not sentimental- ask Wyatt Crocket. Razor is a ruthless selector
4 Go to comments> It would be best described as an elegant solution to what was potentially going to be a significant problem for new All Blacks coach Scott Robertson. It is a problem the mad population of New Zealand will have to cope with more and more as All Blacks are able to continue their careers in NZ post RWCs. It will not be a problem for coaches, who are always going to start a campaign with the captain for the next WC in mind. > Cane, despite his warrior spirit, his undoubted commitment to every team he played for and unforgettable heroics against Ireland in last year’s World Cup quarter-final, was never unanimously admired or respected within New Zealand while he was in the role. Neither was McCaw, he was considered far too passive a captain and then out of form until his last world cup where everyone opinions changed, just like they would have if Cane had won the WC. > It was never easy to see where Cane, or even if, he would fit into Robertson’s squad given the new coach will want to be building a new-look team with 2027 in mind. > Cane will win his selections on merit and come the end of the year, he’ll sign off, he hopes, with 100 caps and maybe even, at last, universal public appreciation for what was a special career. No, he won’t. Those returning from Japan have already earned the right to retain their jersey, it’s in their contract. Cane would have been playing against England if he was ready, and found it very hard to keep his place. Perform, and they keep it however. Very easy to see where Cane could have fit, very hard to see how he could have accomplished it choosing this year as his sabbatical instead of 2025, and that’s how it played out (though I assume we now know what when NZR said they were allowing him to move his sabbatical forward and return to NZ next year, they had actually agreed to simply select him for the All Blacks from overseas, without any chance he was going to play in NZ again). With a mammoth season of 15 All Black games they might as well get some value out of his years contract, though even with him being of equal character to Richie, I don’t think they should guarantee him his 100 caps. That’s not what the All Blacks should be about. He absolutely has to play winning football.
4 Go to commentswhat’s happening to Ian Peel?
1 Go to commentsAs a Crusaders fan , so disappointed , again.But I think Fergus Burke was all class for the Crusaders in his first game since October last year. Fletcher Newell , was so good at prop. Johnny McNicoll has been gold since returning from Wales. Noah Hotham brilliant , in a coming of age second season for the Crusaders.Jone Rova did really well at centre. The end of the game was tough.Sevu Reece , what a game/season in tough times.
4 Go to commentsFellas a balloon
3 Go to commentsBlues B team on display and made no race of it. By far the best team in SR with the Hurricanes barely getting past the winning post. Up the Blues 💙
7 Go to commentsWould be amazing to have Servette Genève reaching this level
3 Go to commentsThe Crusaders can't buy a win this season. Surely Penney's contract won't be renewed. There's still enough talent in the squad that they oughta be winning more.
1 Go to commentsABs captain for 23 seasons. Decent record. Surely nobody will surpass it. Legend. But alas a typo…
4 Go to commentsJust FYI Rugbypass, I for one am tired of your clickbait titles and thumbnails and will be clicking them no longer. Good day.
1 Go to commentsI think Farrell despite all of the stick he gets in the media is still one of if not the best fly half in the world. He is literally the full package. He can kick one of the best in the world, probably has the best defensive game of a fly half in the world and if he wants to he can run, take contact and find an offload to keep the pace of the attack. I dont know why he isnt spoken more about still being one of the best in the world with the likes of dupont. Farrell is the ultimate captain and team leader and is experienced- he has been in nearly any situation you can think of. I still believe due to these reasons that he is England’s best ever player and is still one of the best players in the world.
48 Go to commentsBlues are dominating up front and that’s been a long time coming. They have won the up front confrontation which is where canes, hilanders and act brumbies are also strong.
7 Go to commentsJust watched brumbies v safas game sadly not a show in he’ll thryr anywhere near quarters or semi contention. Admittedly some issues around new comers bot what stands out for me is coaching management, poor game planning and accuracy.
5 Go to comments